ishyface | In which we ruminate on being a fan and the importance of makin' shit.

Current Mood: thinky.
Current Music: Pilate- Overrated

Entry tags:

In which we ruminate on being a fan and the importance of makin' shit.

One of my favourite films (maybe even my favourite film, period) is Velvet Goldmine. (If you have known me for less than five minutes this may be news, but even then I doubt it.) I first picked it up four years ago mostly because of Ewan McGregor, and I've worn out my copy since then. It's got everything I require of a good movie- conspiracy theories, glam rock, gay sex, beautiful visuals, Toni Collette being her wonderful self, Oscar Wilde references, apocalyptic visions of the future, and sequins.

Um. I ask a lot of good movies, apparently.

This has always been one of my favourite scenes. Not just from this movie, but from everything. Context sees Christian Bale as a British schoolboy in the seventies and Jonathan Rhys-Meyers as the totally-not-David-Bowie pop star he's recently become obsessed with.

I've felt that way about music- not just about music, but about the people making it. It's a strange thing to be a fan, really, to identify so wholeheartedly with the words and music and art of someone who will probably never meet you. It brings you closer to them and at the same time reminds you of how far you are from this person you idolize. It even fucking hurts sometimes, because you think if I could just tell them, if I could just let them know somehow...

And you can't, really, because there's no way to say "your music changed my life" or "your book makes me want to write" or "your film is the one I come back to, always" and make someone fully understand that you mean it. How much you mean it. Art makes you responsible, and that can be scary- the idea that something that comes from inside you can actually change someone's life, can do for them what it did for you, can feel almost ludicrous from the outside. That's the frustrating aspect of being a fan.

But the rest of it is fucking awesome.

I know there are some people who disagree. They listen to music if it's on the radio, and they watch movies if there's nothing else to do, and they read books if they're stuck in an airport, and at the end of the day they can take it or leave it. I know that, objectively, but I don't really understand it because it's alien to my own experience. Being a fan makes you biased that way. (It even makes you a little self-righteous, sometimes.) Loving something so much it hurts doesn't really make sense from the outside, but it's also one of the most important things in the world. Feeling passionate about something, identifying with something, takes you away from that notion that life is all about eating and sleeping and passing on your genes. Being a fan is about that passion, in the same way that most important things are.

The things that people make have changed my life, and I fucking love that. I love that people have the power to create things that will make people sit up, take them outside the petty, mindless bullshit in everyday life and make them realize that there are whole worlds full of wonderful things and terrible things and beautiful things and twisted things and people like them.

Oh, no, love, you're not alone.

Because that moment where you stand up and you shout "That's me!" matters. It does.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

this post is beautifully written. and i have a sneaking suspicion that people like you and me, who so dearly need to delve into and savor the creations of others, are exactly the people that such artists need. maybe we're just as important as the creators themselves.

p.s. yes yes yes to velvet goldmine

I'd like to think so. I was talking to a chemistry major a few months ago about interpreting poetry (which, by the by, I am crap at) and he said that he'd hate to be a writer because people would read things into his work that aren't there. I wanted to tell him that that's one of the best parts. That it's not that things aren't there but that things are hidden, and that's why the audience is so important. That they are able to understand and interpret art in a way that the artist can't, because the creator is always too close.

I didn't end up actually saying that, though- I think we started talking about Lord of the Rings instead.

i've been doing writing workshops for a few years now, and people have definitely perceived and told me things about my "fictional" self that i never knew before... but then again to balance it out there are so many morons who just refuse to think about or dig into *anything*... so you learn to identify and really appreciate the handful of people in the class who really do care...

That's what makes me so excited and anxious about any writing workshops I may take in the future- I've always been secretive about the things I write, and it'll be interesting and uncomfortable to see what other people dig out of them. I know what you mean, though, about people refusing to think. One of the things I hated about most of my English classes- in college as well as high school- was that as soon as a professor offered insight or tried to interpret a work and asked for our opinion there'd be this deafening silence. Almost resentful, like thinking was too hard, damn, can't we just be passive and take it all in?

And you can't, of course, because reading something that someone's written without thinking about it is just being polite.

i have to be honest and say that i've had some infuriating experiences with some workshops - mostly entry-level ones; theoretically as you move up it *should* weed out the people who are resentful of being made to think... but of course it's never foolproof.

but yeah, you usually learn, pretty quickly, the handful of people whose opinions you can really trust - there's almost always a little core group of really serious readers/writers. and those are the good people, who make it all very worthwhile.

This makes me smile.

Well put. Years and years ago I may have disagreed, which I find terrifying now but it's the truth. Now...I can't really express now. Instead, I think I'm going to turn on my stereo and grin like the big dork I am. Yes, this sounds adequate.

Because we are the champions of the world.

Indeed :)

I think fans have the sort of imagination that allows them to identify with someone because of their art, which explains some of the closeness we feel toward people we've never met.

I don't know if most people who get fanned ever internalize the fact that they inspire people, no matter how often they're told. It would be a hard thing to understand. On the other hand, I think a lot of them ARE fans; I think they just never believe they're on the other side.

On the other hand, I think a lot of them ARE fans; I think they just never believe they're on the other side.

I agree. I think people who have been fans themselves are the most puzzled at finding out they have fans of their own, to be honest, because they know what it feels like and it makes no sense to them that their work could inspire the same feelings.

Heh. This makes me want to go back and find my that's me moments when I've watched a film/TV show or read a book. :D

Art makes you responsible, and that can be scary- the idea that something that comes from inside you can actually change someone's life, can do for them what it did for you, can feel almost ludicrous from the outside.

Wordy mcword.

I hate writers who dodge the real social, political and cultural responsibility that their work entails. I think that's called lazy-ass ignorant writing, personally.

Do you remember your very first "that's me!" moment? (I'm not sure if I do- I'd have to think back a ways.)

Uhm, that's a toughie because I have a lot of those moments over the years, and they're all a little bit different.

I think my very very very earliest "that's me" moment that I can remember occured when I was probably 5ish, 6ish. I was like, watching Sleeping Beauty and the prince . . . that was me. I wanted to totally go out and fight the baddies.

I had a similar identification with Robin Hood, Peter Pan, Darkwing Duck, Batman. Eh.

Basically = OMG DO-GOODERS EDGING INTO BADASSED REBELS. WHO SAVED THE WORLD.

PS.

Am not totally going to rent Velvet Goldmine and watch it FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME this weekend.

I think I'll make it my carrot - ie - I have one final push to make on my assessments - when I finish them, I get to Velvet Goldmine. *nods*

Woo! If you rent it make sure it's a week-long rental- VG is the kind of movie you need to watch a few times to "get." Or, um, twenty times in my case.

:D

I think old DVDs I get for a week from the library!

Darkwing Duck? That is AWESOME.

I think the first time I felt myself totally identifying with someone- not a character, just a pop star- was Brian Molko when I was fourteen or so.

Ooooh, that's an interesting distinction.

*scratches head*

I don't remember who I identified with as a teenager. I know who I fancied, but that's a bit different. I identified so often with characters . . . I still identify often with characters, more than pop stars or real life personalities. I guess because I assume I can't know them (because in a lot of ways, I don't) so I don't know if I can identify with them.

Probably . . . The Indigo Girls, when I was 13.

Darkwing Duck was awesome. He was a bit whiny and wimpy compared to other superheros (which made him more personable in a way . . . he was always worried his beak looked fat, hahaha), but totally devoted dad. <3 <3 <3 With a really awesome kickass tomboy daughter.

Dude, Darkwing Duck has made me go youtube him to find episodes. :D

And also: Zorro. OH. MY. GOD. Such a Zorro freak. I totally wanted to ride around waving a saber and smiling mysteriously behind a mask. AND A BLACK CAPE.

And that reminds me: Star Wars. Luke Skywalker.

God. I am SUCH a fantasy/epic/scific escapist nut.

Watching Darkwing Duck. He talks all the time, wears yards and yards and yards of purple, is vain, a bit prissy, and his sidekick and him? Totally not the Ambiguously Gay Couple.

Best part is this fine bit of narration on DW's part:

"And terror runs through the streets like a pair of cheap stockings!"

HOLY COW.

Edited 2008-06-04 15:02 (UTC)

Darkwing Duck is the only gay in the village, y/n?

I always identified more with Chewie than Luke, myself. Because I am furry (and dangerous!).

Oh, I <3 that clip so much! Arthur Stewart is possibly my favorite character in anything EVAR!

I KNOW. Arthur Stewart reminds me a lot of William Miller from Almost Famous- they're both trying to be objective about the worlds they're thrown into, but everything they do is coloured by their experience as fans and by how much music has meant to them. I think one of the things I took away from Velvet Godlmien (and David Bowie's less-than-warm reception of it) is that it's almost impossible to be objective, especially about music. And even though that's frustrating, it's also liberating, because it means that you don't have to worry about something you love being good or bad or cool or uncool or whatever. All that matters is how it affects you.

Also, Christian Bale is hot. But that is what they call a "gimme."

Urgh, WORD. I know many people who can take it or leave it about music, books, and other kinds of art, but it is my life.

Sometimes I listen to a song, read a book, and I think "oh god, thank you, thank you so much for writing my life out for me" and I don't think I'll ever be able to tell them how much their creations mean to my life. It's a wonderful and bittersweet feeling.

Thank you for writing this post. <3

Wonderful and bittersweet- yes, that's it exactly.

I remember when I was young all I ever wanted to do was meet Tamora Pierce. I know that's maybe a little silly, because she's not that good, but at age thirteen I thought she was the shit and I wanted to be just like her. That sort of intense feeling makes it almost impossible to read her books objectively now, or at least her old ones. My rational mind knows they're not good, but the rest of me is so into feeling the way I felt as a kid that I don't care. I'd still like to be able to tell her how much her writing meant to me, how she made me want to write.

I did eventually get to meet her, but I was so dazed about it I walked into a row of chairs after getting her to sign my copy of Lioness Rampant. So, um, I fail at cool and collected. /o\

I love the way you wrote this; it's especially timely for me. :P My parents have finally realized how much the music of Janet Weiss and friends means to me, after, as you know, I camped in a tent in the middle of nowhere surrounded by happy drunks and Kooks fans to see The Jicks play live. If that isn't fan devotion, I don't quite know what is.

Needless to say, my plans to bus/train to Portland next spring with some friends to go see Quasi now sound completely and utterly normal.

I remember the first time I heard Sleater-Kinney-I was in sex ed, and watching music videos, and You're No Rock And Roll Fun came on. I was still dating my crazy ex, and was kind of letting myself become objectified by her gaze [by that I mean I began to dress in a sexy, almost pseudo anime styled way]. When I saw these women, who were clearly confident, not really airbrushed, and having fun being themselves while playing amazing music...something clicked in me.

I can put a Sleater-Kinney song/album to any moment of the past four years in my life, although lately I've actually been listening to a lot more Quasi. I realized the other day that apart from history and English, I can't really remember what I read last year in school. However, I am able to rattle off all seven Sleater-Kinney albums, where they were recorded, and who recorded them. As well, I have this chart that I work on occasionally that's kind of like Alice's from the L Word but charts all of the different working relationships in the Portland scene, which is how I am able to connect the Portland music scene to the Colorado music scene in three ways, and have come up with a convincing argument that Janet Weiss is the busiest indie rock star of all time.

I don't actually know where I was going with this. But now I need to watch Velvet Goldmine.

Do you like Sleater-Kinney? I had no idea!

You're probably going to hate this example, but I felt the same way the first time I listened to MCR. I was kind of in the same situation you were in- had a weird-ass, kind of psycho girlfriend who didn't treat me right and was getting way too wrapped up in seeing myself in relation to her, and I was just... I felt lost, in a really cliche and teenage sort of way. The first time I heard "I'm Not Okay" was one of those "that's me!" moments, and I bought their album and listened to it in the middle of a snowstorm with candles 'round my bed and it was one of those secret holy moments that make life beautiful. I remember going to see them and feeling connected for the first time- you know that feeling when you're in the middle of a group of people loving the shit out of something together? I'd never felt that before, and it was so fucking powerful and transformative. Sometimes I feel sad that some people don't feel that way about things.

So, uh, yeah, in conclusion, Ish is emo. :)

I'm curious about how Portland connects to Colorado! I am currently trying to see who I can connect Janet to, given that I know very little about her. (She drummed for Bright Eyes, and Conor Oberst did a song with Ryan Adams, who has Melissa Auf der Maur on one of his albums, who used to play bass for Hole. That's all I got.)

Joanna Bolme, who plays bass in the Jicks and Quasi and dated Elliott Smith[RIP], also played bass for this band called The Minders, who is based out of Denver, Colorado. The original members of this band were also in The Apples In Stereo, and were part of the Elephant Six Collective, which also includes Dressy Bessy and Neutral Milk Hotel. Naturally, Joanna lives in Portland. Also, parts of Elliott's self titled album, Either/Or and New Moon were recorded in her house.

Connecting on to this is that Wayne Coyne, of the Flaming Lips, was also a friend of Elliott Smith, and helped him come up with the title of the song, "A Distorted Reality Is Now A Neccessity To Be Free". As well, Corin Tucker of Sleater-Kinney dueted with him on a cover of Black Sabbath's War Pigs one New Year's. As well, at a different show Corin hauled out her son Marshall Tucker during a Flaming Lips show, where he reportedly danced with Iggy Pop.

Basically, anyone can become connected to Janet.

Janet was a music fanatic long before she was a drummer[she began drumming at 22 when the drums found her-she had been playing for two weeks when this band called the Furies asked her if she wanted to tour and she learned as she went, essentially]; which is how she had at least two awkward teenage meeting ups with Joe Strummer of the Clash. She was a longtime fan of this little known musician named Sam Coomes, who played in this band called Heatmiser with an unknown Elliott Smith and Neil Gust. Janet fell in love with Sam [aw] and moved to Portland from San Fransisco. Janet really, really loves listening to music, and is responsible for having the White Stripes and Cat Power open for Sleater-Kinney. She saw The White Stripes play in a little seedy bar for like 20 people around the De Stijl era, and convinced Carrie and Corin that they should open. I don't know the circumstances in which Cat Power opened. In 2005, this came full circle when Sleater-Kinney opened for The White Stripes at the Gorge.

Remember the Hardest Button To Button video? Corin's son has one of the drumsets in their house.

Not to mention the whole "Janet and Sam divorced but continued on playing together and their music got so much better" thing that Jack and Meg also have.

[Although, Janet basically blows Meg out of the water. There was this great quote in Spin where Carrie Brownstein said, "If Corin's the glass half full, and I'm the glass half empty, Janet smashes the glass."]

Continuing on with Janet, before Sleater-Kinney but during Quasi she played in this other band called Jr.High, who had Joanna Bolme and Sean Croghan in it as well. Both of these people were interviewed by Autumn De Wilde for her Elliott Smith book that was released earlier this year. Autumn De Wilde, besides her work with Elliott, also took all the photos for The Raconteurs first album, Broken Boy Soldiers, and shot the video for "Salute Your Solution". Autumn has also photographed lots of other amazing people, including Beck, Spoon, Tegan and Sara, and Rilo Kiley. http://www.autumndewilde.com

She played on a song for Sarah Dougher, which I have not actually heard. However, the Doog also played in Cadallaca with Corin Tucker[in which Janet is thanked in the first few names in the LP, "Introducing Cadallaca", and the Doog also dated Carrie Brownstein. She is the subject of the songs "Funeral Song" and "The Remainder" on One Beat. The Doog is currently teaching at a university in PDX, and one of my LJ buddies had her two semesters ago for a course on women in rock and roll.

Also, the song Get Up was written in Calvin Johnson's basement. He founded K Records, which The Moldy Peaches/Kimya Dawson are signed to [Juno, anyone?] Miranda July directed the video, and Mirah appears in the video a couple of times.

Janet [and Sam!] also played on a Go-Betweens album, which connects all three members of S-K to Australia [Go Betweens are Aussies, the first S-K album and tour were in Australia].

Janet is also friends with Karen O of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. Sleater-Kinney are thanked in the booklet for Fever To Tell.

Janet and Elliott went to early Death Cab shows, which apparently scared the crap out of the band. This is discussed in aforementioned Elliott book.

The drummer from Death Cab tutors the drummer from Smoosh, who also labels Janet as a role model.

Apparently Janet met Heidi Fleiss. You know, the Hollywood Madame? Yeah. Her.

The night after Elliott Smith died, Quasi and Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks played a set in....Europe somewhere. Apart from that,Janet had never played with Malkmus before the Jicks, even though she was a pretty long time friend and fan.

I still don't quite know how she ended up with Bright Eyes last year. I love that album, but to me it doesn't really sound like Janet at all. It sounds more muted, which is weird because Janet likes to say that she considers her instrument as melodic as anything else.

Continuing on with yours, Melissa Auf Der Maur hails from our lovely country, and has been friends with Rufus Wainwright since childhood. Also, like Janet, Melissa is an accomplished photographer. [If you look at early Quasi photos, Janet is the one taking them. She actually has a B.F.A in photography.]

I'm going to leave it here, but I will have probably thought of something else come morning. Really.

Basically, the argument is that between her work with Conor Oberst, Elliott Smith [they toured], Sam Coomes, Stephen Malkmus, and Sleater-Kinney, Janet Weiss is like the biggest indie superstar. Or something.

She has said she's the most gung ho about music compared to anyone she's ever worked with. [See the year 1999-2000, where she toured for twelve months straight.]

Now, I really will end.

Holy shucking fit.

:D

Yeah, this is why my friends tend not to ask this question unless they are drunk. It goes on and on and on and on. I think Teresina might actually be worse than me but as I have some Quasi songs she has never heard of, that's up for debate.

I hope it didn't make your eyes sore, though.

joanna bolme didnt and doesnt play bass in the minders...

I was going by Wikipedia. But thanks. :)

i agree with everything you said, minus the velvet goldmine stuff becuase i havent seen it :( but im sure once i do i will agree with everything. one of my biggest pet peves is that people seem to think that im into pop music and rap when really i cant stand it, my ipod is basicly lots of stuff form by the beatles and songs oyu would expect to hear on the garden state soundtrack. moral od the story is music/movies/books make my life i dont know who i would be with out them.

Ahaha. Poor Jill, do people think you're gangsta? :D

I think it's actually amazing that books and music and movies can be such integral parts of people's identity. I know that there are some people who consider that level of identification to be unhealthy, but I figure the same people who think that don't see anything wrong with overemphasizing stupid, meaningless shit like what job you have or what car you drive or how hot your date is. So I figure those people are wrong, and can SUCK IT.

I've never seen Velvet Goldmine, but that scene's fucking awesome.

It's a great movie- I really can't recommend it enough. (As you may have noticed.) And where else are you going to get the theory that Oscar Wilde was sent from outer space to make us all a little more fabulous?

I got here from Kirie's journal, aha, that was the best thread of comments I've ever been witness to?
But also, your entry was amazing! I feel compelled to friend you :)

Also I am in love with Velvet Goldmine...

BABY'S ON FI-RE, BETTER THROW HER IN THE WATER, etc.

That song is one of very few covers that's better than the original. (And, as always, Ewan McGregor sure helped.)

I have no idea how Kir knows all the stuff she does, but I came away from that exchange feeling thoroughly edified! (Although a terrible part of me wants to see if I can connect Janet to Pete Wentz, just because I'm pretty sure it'd make a few heads explode. Including my own.)

Awesome- I'll friend you back!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

In which we ruminate on being a fan and the importance of makin' shit.

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Dude, could you BE more gay?

Re: Dude, could you BE more gay?

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Ish, you asked for this. I have no mercy.

Re: Ish, you asked for this. I have no mercy.

Re: Ish, you asked for this. I have no mercy.

Re: Ish, you asked for this. I have no mercy.

Re: Ish, you asked for this. I have no mercy.

Re: Ish, you asked for this. I have no mercy.

In which Wikipedia is not always right.

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject