ishyface | Who Broke Up With Amanda Palmer? (Spoiler: ME.)

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Who Broke Up With Amanda Palmer? (Spoiler: ME.)

Okay, SO. Evelyn Evelyn. Let's talk about it.

Ever since I found out who she was, way back in 2005 when I was just a wee Ish who listened to the Dresden Dolls more than was entirely healthy, I have adored Amanda Palmer. I don't mean that I like her music or find her interesting or think she is hot like ten thousand glorious suns (although all of these things are true!). I mean that since I was sixteen years old I have fucking worshiped her. Her music didn't just move me or speak to me, it was me. She was messy and complicated and funny and weird and desperate for attention and aware of herself and lonely and happy and everything I was, pretty much, and I fucking loved her for it.

And then came Evelyn Evelyn.

When I first learned about this band, the fact that it was kind of ableist definitely registered and made me intensely uncomfortable. The idea of anyone appropriating an identity that is not theirs- that they have no right to claim- is fucked up. It would be different, I think, if she was just writing songs from the point of view of a cojoined person (although even that is problematic), but to dress up as one? To play the part of a minority you're not a part of for a fucking lark? Not okay. Really, really not okay.

But it's AMANDA, I thought. She can't not make something awesome out of this. It's probably all gonna be a statement! About disabled rights, and exploitation, and... um... artifice! And stuff! Yeah!

And then I read this, and this. And that uncomfortable feeling got stronger. The idea of her dressing up as a disabled person was bad, but the way she constructed the twins as "real people" somehow affected me way worse. Not only was she cashing in on the suffering of a minority (of which she is not a part- don't talk to me about "Oasis" and how this is the exact same thing, the difference is she actually experienced date rape and abortion but she has never experienced disability), but the way she wrote the twins was so... so privileged. They aren't fully realized people even in her own mind. They're shy, fey women-children, victims (always ALWAYS victims because God knows disabled people can never be anything else amirite???) of hideous circumstances who somehow managed to come through it all with their innocence intact, ~*~rising above~*~ their awful body through the healing power of song- and with the help of an able-bodied messiah who graciously decides to make them famous. This is not a new story. This is not a new take on disability. These characters are not people. They're dolls.

I mean, for God's sake, they're afraid of beards. BEARDS.

But... it's AMANDA, I thought, a little desperately this time. Sure, maybe she doesn't get it, but maybe she just hasn't thought about it properly!

Because whatever privilege we have- and most of us have some form of it or another- we've all had that experience where we think something is cool and weird and transgressive until we, you know, learn something about people without that privilege and realize that actually, that's kind of fucked up and not cool at all really. I've done it; I can't count all the times I've looked back at things I wrote as a teenager and felt a deep, unhappy shudder of shame as I realized that my privilege wasn't just showing, but hanging all out and flapping in the wind.* You've probably done it, either with something you've created or something you were really into or something you just didn't think too hard about. Recognizing and confronting your own privilege is difficult, and it takes time, and it's always an evolving process. I'll probably wake up tomorrow and realize that something I did yesterday was fucked up, and I will feel ashamed of myself and mope about it for a little while and then make a committed effort to not do it again. Because that's how this shit works. You've got to learn as you go, and part of the learning process involves learning the many and varied ways you've been a dick to people who aren't like you. Sad but true.

So, I thought, maybe since there are people calling her out on this, she'll rethink things. Maybe she'll take a second look at this project. Maybe she'll take these critiques to heart.

I really hoped she would. Because she was AMANDA FUCKING PALMER. She was who I looked up to, who I admired, who I wanted to goddamn be.

And then came this:

setting aside 846 emails and removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery, @amandapalmer sat down to plan her next record.

"Removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery."
"Removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery."
"Removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery."
"Removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery."
"Removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery."
"Removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery."
"Removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery."
"Removing the disabled feminists from her mental periphery."

Because that's how you respond to people who call you out on your shit- you gaily throw them out of your headspace and carry on without learning a goddamn thing.

Because examining your privilege is boring, and your imaginary two-headed freak show is way, way more important than real live people.

Because they just don't understand your art.

Because they're just reading too much into it.

Because who gives a fuck what they think, they're just a bunch of whiny bitches.

I love the Dresden Dolls. I love Who Killed Amanda Palmer? I love her words and her music and her art and her blog and her everything, my God, I really do.

But I can't love this, and I can't support it, and I can't describe how awful and lonely and disappointed it makes me feel.

ETA: Looks like Jason Webley (kinda) gets it. :D?

* One of the more fucked up ones I found, written when I was thirteen: a black tribe that worshiped a white goddess. I know. I KNOW.

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I don't mind at all, darlin'.

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Will do.

While I didn't have as strong of a connection to Amanda that many, many people on my flist do, it still breaks my heart to see her doing this. I loved the Dresden Dolls so hard and I've always thought that she was such an amazing person. She and Neil Gaiman together made me squee so hard, it was the best match I could imagine.

But this, from her, and from all the great people involved in the project is just....wow. I cannot even believe she's essentially refusing to hear the opinions of the dissenters. I don't understand how it's being justified in her mind.

And I feel so much empathy for all of my friends who looked up to her. I can't imagine the disappointment I would feel if my idols did this kind of thing. ♥ to you bb, and to everyone who feels betrayed. And here's to hoping that she'll wake up and realize why this is not okay.

Honestly, up to this point there was NOTHING she'd done that didn't make me squee. She seemed to get a lot of things that other people didn't get, things about art and culture and slut-shaming and body pride and humour and feminism and things I almost never expect to hear celebrities talk about with any kind of nuanced understanding. And she understood. And she was someone like me. And now... it's like suddenly seeing video footage of Joe Trohman kickin puppies, or something.

I don't understand that either. Apparently she's blocked some people on Twitter who've tried to argue with her about it, which... no. Just no. :(

Thanks, Shay. ♥

wait, what?

D: amanda. D:!

i cannot even.

I knowwwwwwwwww. :(

this is one of those things that makes me go WHYWOULDYOUWHYWOULDYOUWHYWOULDYOU?!

It feels like a betrayal, honestly. Which is dumb in a way because she never really owed me anything, she's an artist and I'm a consumer, but all this time she's been a sort of champion for people who didn't have champions. She's supposed to support and love outsiders. ALL of us. Not just the ones whose bodies look like hers.

to be honest, i know nothing of this, other than what i've read here. but this just. :/

This is a fantastic post, thank you for it. And it's very very similar to how I feel about the whole thing.

Ahh man, I am so sad and angry about it all.

I really wish I could just be angry about it, because it's fucking infuriating, you know? But even when I feel that I'm sad at the same time, because she meant a lot to me as an artist and a performer and now... it's all sullied.

And it wouldn't have been if she'd just engaged.

Hey, you don't know me, but this rings so true. From the nature of my fannishness about Amanda to the impact of that last tweet, just, goddamn. Thanks for articulating it so well.

Thanks for reading. That last tweet really felt like a punch in the face. It was so dismissive, and so casually ignorant, it really sent me reeling.

i don't really know you (but i probably should at this point) but i'm a friend of

iamsupernova's and i just wanted to say that although i never worshipped amaznda, i did pretty much worship gabe saporta and his blatant sexist brought me to exactly this point. UGH. UGH. UGH!

we should be friends?

I was thinking about Gabe when I wrote this, actually. I'm not sure when I started to find his antics and "ironic" bullshit annoying instead of endearing, but as soon as I heard that first song on Hot Mess I was pretty much done with him. Oh, Gabriel, you poor Nice Guy. >:(

(I agree re: friendage!)

i listened to the whole album before it came out as a single and i was like "this entire album is about how women are immature and irresponsible and how they're bad if they have sex and they can't control themselves. WHAT GABE, WHAT." and then i heard the video summary and i was like "WHAT NO" and then i saw the video and i was done.

i've talked to him about women's rights before! he's just spitting in my face as a feminist. FUCK OFF.

but yeah... amanda :(

i've talked to him about women's rights before!

Really? What did he say? He doesn't seem like the kind of dude who would bother talking about something that serious, tbh.

Amanda. :(

oh, how much do you know about gabe? i was like his biggest fan for a few years, i know a lot, i forget some people are casual fans who maybe only know his later appearances. no, he's super, super political and cool about shit.

yeah, i met victoria before the show and i thought to ask her if she was a feminist and she said (in short) that she isn't because feminists are "ruining the gentleman" by yelling at men who hold the door open for them. after the show i asked gabe how he felt about that- he said that he doesn't like labels or -isms, so he wouldn't say he's a feminist, but he's very much in support of equal rights. also, a bit before the hot mess video came out, he donated some money to a women's shelter. buying off your guilt much? that, or he actually doesn't see his public work as sexist. can't say.

Hmm. I knew he used to be into riot grrrl when he was a teenager, but I didn't know he was still political. On the one hand, that's pretty awesome, but on the other, it makes his recent fail even more disappointing.

she said (in short) that she isn't because feminists are "ruining the gentleman" by yelling at men who hold the door open for them

... there is not enough :/ in the WORLD.

i hate victoria sooooo much. she is like any given patriarchal chauvenist's dream of what a women is: vain, selfish, completely irrational, materialistic, overdramatic. ugh. and then that. can't stand it.

but yeah, gabe is still political. his 'ironic' shtick is actually ironic- the problem lies in that he's stopped breAking character, so if you only tuned in for the last record (as many did), you don't know it's a game. but on his own time he still reads russian philosophers and shit.

Wow. I don't know much about Victoria at all- can you elaborate?

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rawkenr0ll.livejournal.com - 2010-02-19 05:33 (UTC) - Expand

It gets worse. I'm sorry.

http://morethansides.blogspot.com/2010/01/on-rape-culture-amanda-palmer-and.html

My heart is so broken right now.

... oh. Oh, man.

:( Fuck the world, seriously.

....wha!?!?!?!

For me, it's just easier to think that this whole project doesn't exist, between everything you just described and the fact that Frances Bean is involved(minor, I know, but it's a bit of a mindfuck for me.)

Yeah, FB being involved is pretty bizarre. (Also involved: Jimmy Urine, Chantal Claret, Gerard Way, Margaret Cho, Neil Gaiman, Tegan and Sara, EVERYONE I HAVE EVER LOVED CHRIST I HATE THIS.)

Got to this through twitter, and just wanted to say that I agree with what you say and feel the same hurt.

I'm really glad I'm not alone in this.

it's interesting what you're saying about privilege & the like, because the ableist thing didn't cross my mind straight away, & i did think for a moment that the idea of presenting cojoined twins was transgressive & was more about putting forward something that people aren't used to hearing about, which made it a good thing. also, i'm always really easily swayed by what i read on the internet, so i kind of went from "i like what amanda's saying, i will back her up!" to "wait, loads of people disagree, i will back them up!"

but that interview with spin did bother me, mostly because of the weird childishness of the answers. cojoined twins or not, it made them seem about 12 years old, which makes the idea of amanda & jason "producing" them weirdly exploitative. i think it's the way that they're promoting this project which is the problem. like you said, it's the "story" about the 'able-bodied messiah who graciously agrees to make them famous' that's the real problem, & the thing that's making most people uncomfortable. obviously, this whole "crip drag" thing is dubious to begin with, but maybe if there weren't such a problematic backstory to go with it... i don't know.

she recently re-tweeted something someone said about people dressing up as pirates with peg-legs & eyepatches, & no-one calling them out about making fun of the crippled or vision-impaired. maybe amanda thinks that people just think that she's making fun of cojoined twins, but that's really not the same as this idea of appropriating an identity you have no right to. then again, i thought nothing of this before i started reading the criticism. but it's like you said, with the amount of people calling her out on this, you'd think she'd rethink things a bit.

still, i'm waiting on her blog response. i totally don't think that what she's doing is okay (now i don't, because I Have Learned), but i really want to know how she's going to deal with the critique. i just hope that she deals like jason webley, graciously & apologetically, even if she does forge ahead & feel like she's doing the right thing for the sake of art or whatever, because there would be nothing more disappointing than her having a go at her fans for Not Getting It, considering the majority of her fans worship her & feel like she speaks out in a positive & groovy way against societal norms & the marginalisation of minorities.

so. the way she responds to this i think will dictate whether i walk away disappointed or not. either way, she's not standing in such a shiny light as before, which is a horrible fucking shame, because gerard way is all well & good up on that pedestal i've put him on, but i really fucking liked having a woman in the music industry i could look up to.

bah. & the 'raping' of 'katy perry' has bothered me more than i'd like to admit.

You hit the nail on the head with the fact that they come off as children and yet they are supposed to be 25 yr old women. I hate that. "Me want twix. Pwease gimme twix. Goo goo gah!" *BARF*

On the one hand she says they are calling the shots, that she (Amanda) goes to them for approval of the blog, etc. Then publicly presents them as child-like? If she wants us to play along like they are real, then the grown ups are probably exploiting and taking advantage of women who are this stupid, no?

Anyway, my feeling is that they are presented as ridiculous freaks for us to either pity or laugh at. If they had any respect for disability then they would have presented them with vibrant personalities, their own dreams and goals and willfulness, not nincompoops who will sell their souls for twix candy. "Amanda sez this. Amanda sez that. We have no minds of our own, we do what Amanda tells us to do, and think what Amanda tells us to think. TWIX TWIX TWIX!" *PUKE*

*nod nod* Also, something someone else pointed out: she specifically mentions "the twins" as being "difficult." Which, okay, AFP, not like able-bodied people use words like that to shame disabled people or anything!

Their Twitter is so creepy. Yuck.

Yeah it was the twitter that got to me mostly, and obviously I was being hyperbolic about just how childish they come off, but it was the icky creepy stunted intellect she created for them that angers me.

Well there's more than that, also her twitter, saying that pain is inevitable but suffering is optional. I am a disabled woman with three herniated discs in my spine. When the pain is really high I have other physical reactions, I shake and sweat. There is no opting out of suffering unless Amanda is telling me to go kill myself.

I'd never disagree with the fact that brilliant art is controversial, imaginative, etc. But it also takes on the powerful not the marginalized. Making a fool of government and politicians, or religion, or social constructs like whiteness (white people and/or racism), and in this case Amanda could be taking on ableism, but I doubt it. She's going for the easy cheap laugh and taking on those politically weaker than herself. This just makes her a bully. I hope she proves me wrong, but since she is being dismissive already, that would be a miracle. She wanted to have a freak show and ridicule the grotesqueness of disability and we're ruining her fun.

but that interview with spin did bother me, mostly because of the weird childishness of the answers. cojoined twins or not, it made them seem about 12 years old, which makes the idea of amanda & jason "producing" them weirdly exploitative.

*nod* That interview was kind of a tipping point for me in terms of giving them the benefit of the doubt. The sleazy exploitative air gets even worse when you consider the fact that their backstory includes child pornography. Ugh. :(

Have you read her response yet? I wasn't impressed with it, honestly.

like i said before, i have some serious problems when it comes to being swayed by the things people say on the internet, because reading amanda's response kind of calmed me (i have been thinking about this debacle all day, on repeat, in a mix of confusion & panicky feelings of how-can-amanda-no-longer-be-awesome?) & at first, her response made me think "great, she's listening to people & putting things in context" - but then i read the responses to her response, people calling her out on, essentially, having not actually dealt with any crticism at all (notably, the fact that this is one big ablist fuck-up), & then i was all het up & unimpressed again.

i actually just finished posting a kind of lengthy discussion of the whole thing on my lj here (http://moondarri.livejournal.com/255479.html), if you're interested. my mind is still boggling at what a shitstorm this has become. (not because i think the responses are overreactions, but because - well, like the subject of your post, i didn't think something could happen like this that would make amanda fall so far in my esteem of her.)

... re-reading that first bit of my comment & thinking i come off a bit like a desperately pathetic fangirl & not nearly as angry with amanda & the whole debacle as i honestly am. typing - it does not render tone well.

Basically, this whole post. I was never a huge fan of Amanda but I always thought, at the back of my mind, "hey, this amanda seems to be a really intelligent, interesting woman". Now... eesh.

Yeah. It's really, really making me see her in a different light.

(a light of ABLEIST ASSHOLERY)

I picked out some good comments on Amanda's latest blog, in case you don't want to wade through the majority of fuckery:

http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/396762227/evelyn-evelyn-drama-drama#comment-35033756
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/396762227/evelyn-evelyn-drama-drama#comment-35040160
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/396762227/evelyn-evelyn-drama-drama#comment-35039584
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/396762227/evelyn-evelyn-drama-drama#comment-35032678
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/396762227/evelyn-evelyn-drama-drama#comment-35035864
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/396762227/evelyn-evelyn-drama-drama#comment-35032965
http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post/396762227/evelyn-evelyn-drama-drama#comment-35035127

Also,

impertinence and

bexless posted (http://impertinence.livejournal.com/531393.html) their thoughts (http://bexless.livejournal.com/835291.html), as well as tigerbeatdown (http://tigerbeatdown.com/?p=889).

-Ari

ngl, I was kind of anticipating

impertinence's post about this. I love her periodic smackdowns of fannish stupidity. <3

Thank you for wading through those comments, darlin'- I couldn't stomach all the bullshit in the threads enough to find the good ones.

Your post has been added to a linkspam round-up (http://linkspam.dreamwidth.org/23340.html).

Cool.

Sadness.

I don't know what to say except that, as an artistic person, an person with able-bodied privilege and white privilege, I work really hard to make sure I don't co-opt what isn't mine when I write certain people. And it really baffles me that someone who seems as smart and talented as Amanda Palmer would not only NOT examine these things, but refuses to listen and then goes and does stuff like simulating the rape of a Kate Perry like character. Kate Perry is atrocious, but seriously, that's not subversive. That's just the same ol' misgynostic bullshit recycled over again (punish the uppity woman [ Perry ] by dominating or controlling her, I guess) and does exactly jack shit to help women in the music industry.

Wannabe really subversive, Amanda? Shut the fuck up and apologize when you're wrong, for starters.

Yes. Whatever privilege you have, whatever hangups lurk inside your brain, it's your own damn job to examine it, change your behaviour, and apologize when you fuck up. And this fuckup is, um, epic. And she's still not apologizing. She still doesn't get it. :(

This feels like... like someone told me Carl Barat strangles kittens for fun. And it kind of makes me not want to be a fan of anything ever again, except possibly baby animals because they can't talk (and therefore DISAPPOINT ME) and are awesome.

did she really experience date rape and abortion? i suppose yes, that does make it better because much as i love that song, it makes me flinch. especially knowing that other rape survivors understabdably find it disgusting, offensive, and tasteless.

I was much more molified by Jason Webley's take. I feel like he would also like to say more, but is tied by commitments. It's a shitty situation and I kinda wish Amanda Palmer would grow up and take the high road. Well written reaction. Thanks.

WTF. ;__;

Amanda Palmer's relentless quest for fame has led her into the waiting maw of Scientology. Amanda Palmer is marrying into one of the major international Scientology families and her Scientologist fiancee Neil Gaiman just gave the cult another $500,000.00 through his business partner Mary Gaiman in 2010 after donating $35,000.00 in the fall of 2009. Gaiman is the vitamin heir of scientology and you better believe that they are dealing with Amanda Palmer as we speak. Scientologist believe that accountability is low on the the tone scale and to never defend and always attack. Scientology accounts for every change in Amanda Palmer... if you want to save your friend, you better find out more about it... fast.

Отлично. Ждем новых сообщений на эту же тему :) (http://zimnyayaobuv.ru/) (http://zimnyaya-obuv.ru/)

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Who Broke Up With Amanda Palmer? (Spoiler: ME.)

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Exactly

Re: Exactly

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Amanda Palmer killed by Scientology

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