What the screaming fuck.

[ishyface]

From apiphile:

Women should say yes, yes, yes more.

Arndt said while giving women the right to say "no" to sex was an undisputed success of the women's movement, "the female libido tends to be a fragile, easily distracted thing that gets buffeted by normal life and a couple can't afford to have their intimacy reliant on that fragility".

...

Arndt said low-libido partners, which are mostly women, needed to put sex on the "to-do list", even if they didn't feel like doing it.

"The notion that women have to want sex to enjoy it has been a really misguided idea that has caused havoc in relationships over the last 40 years."

With the right approach from a loving partner, if women were willing to be receptive "and allow themselves to relax … they would enjoy it", she said.

Forget about mutual respect and consent, the key to a happy sexual relationship is one person lying back and thinking of England while the other jackhammers away whispering "just relax, baby, you'll love it, I promise." Kinda hoped we'd got past that idea!

Look. If you're with someone and they don't want to have sex with you? YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM. Because their body is theirs, and they do not have to let anyone touch them ever, and having sex you don't want to have, even if you do "relax" (which I assume is code for "stop fighting and give in, you frigid bitch"), will fuck you up but good. Your partner does not belong to you! Consent is important! So if they say no, you fucking stop. I don't give a shit how damaged your poor delicate ego is, YOU FUCKING STOP.

And if you don't... well. There's a word for that and it's spelled r-a-p-e.

Comments

[elorie.livejournal.com]

I read the part about the fragility of the female libido to my sweetie and he said, "I don't know what world they live in." *snicker*

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I'm usually tempted to conclude that people who make sweeping generalities about women's sexuality have never met any, but the fact that Arndt is a woman makes me think that maybe she actually thinks this kind of behaviour from a partner is okay, which kind of makes me feel sorry for her.

Not sorry enough to make me stop hoping she falls in a puddle or something, but sorry.

[elorie.livejournal.com]

It's a case about making correct observations about what is happening, but drawing the wrong conclusions about it. I notice that most of her examples are people in their 50's and 60's. That means they were all raised when the gender-role expectations about how Men Want It and Women Don't were in full swing. Even the youngest of them can remember when birth control became easily available, and despite the so-called "sexual revolution" that followed, it takes a lot more than a pill to really change culture.

I bet that the men in those relationships are probably unwittingly giving out mixed signals...that is, they may say they want their wives to want sex, but what they really want is for their wives to say yes when they want sex...an important distinction. The guy who said he'd wait for his wife to ask for sex had the right idea, but probably after thirty years of a different pattern, and then there's the question of his wife being raised to believe that Nice Girls Don't.

Just to play devil's advocate here, the author is a therapist, and her job is to help people improve their relationships. If there's no sex happening, and that's making one partner really unhappy, then that's a pretty easy and obvious thing to address...and this is crucial...within the time frame that insurance will pay for counseling. I think it's kind of lazy and not best practice, but there's more to it than her just being an idiot. I do think that approach is likely to foster more problems in the long run, both in the relationship and in the sense that it reinforces cultural bullshit, but...and here I get really nasty and cynical...that's not really her problem. Less cynically, changing cultural expectations and what not is not really within a therapist's scope. She has to deal with what she's got to work with.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I notice that most of her examples are people in their 50's and 60's. That means they were all raised when the gender-role expectations about how Men Want It and Women Don't were in full swing. Even the youngest of them can remember when birth control became easily available, and despite the so-called "sexual revolution" that followed, it takes a lot more than a pill to really change culture.

*nod* Good point.

I do think that approach is likely to foster more problems in the long run, both in the relationship and in the sense that it reinforces cultural bullshit, but...and here I get really nasty and cynical...that's not really her problem.

But if her approach fosters more problems in a relationship she is trying to help fix doesn't that make it her problem by definition? She can't do much about cultural bullshit on her own, but she CAN help reinforcing that cultural bullshit in this particular case, not to mention encouraging one half of a partnership to do something that basically throws their right to bodily integrity out the window. I know you're playing devil's advocate, but it kind of baffles me that she wouldn't make that connection.

[elorie.livejournal.com]

It will cause more long term problems, but is likely to make them (or at least one of them) feel like things are improving temporarily. And, since typically it's the women who want to go to counseling and men who are reluctant, there's more mileage in improving things from the male's POV.

All of this has to do with how insurance companies pay for counseling, which is typically only 8-12 WEEKS. There's not a lot you can do in that amount of time that's deep or long-lasting.

[mresundance.livejournal.com]

You know, if someone wants it so bad but their partner doesn't, there's something called masturbation which can help.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

BUT THAT'S A SIN JESSE. Unlike possibly raping someone!

[ladydreamer.livejournal.com]

Masturbation is the solution to many, many things.

[mresundance.livejournal.com]

That's kinda a weird article. I wanted to know where the hell there getting all these uh, "facts" and uh, "statistics" or whatnot, and what kind of marriages they were focusing on. Like, are you intentionally focusing on the ones with problems and not the ones where the couples have found ways to flourish?

She said one man, a 66-year-old from Darwin, eventually gave up and told his wife: "I'll make no advances or ask for sex until you ask me." The result? "In the last eight years there has been no sex in our marriage at all," he wrote.

Interesting, but uh, dude. 8 years? After one year it's time to re-negotiate terms or a get a divorce, if sex is important to one person and not so much to the other. I would not stay married to someone for 8 years like that. Though, the guy was 66; not that people of a certain age don't have sex, but I can see how, by then, one might be reluctant to change things or to get a divorce, considering they've probably been married most of their adult lives.

Mostly, this article was sketchy and stupid. "Ladies, do it even when you don't want to"??? Yes, frightfully close to rapey material. And women's libido as fragile? Huh? Really? (Have you ever BEEN with a warrior woman????) And why is always about men and their wants and needs? That's just silly.

These kind of skewed ideas about sex are the kinds of things that make people have problems with their sexuality in the first place. It's all this misleading and wrong information rather than actual, honest, and productive discussions about sexuality. Plus, patriarchy. Patriarchy kinda ruins a lot of the fun.

(Damn you, patriarchal gender roles and expectations.)

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Patriarchy: Why We Can't Have Nice Things.

[gair.livejournal.com]

In their universe, are there lesbians?

[mresundance.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Another glaring issue.

I hate how sex and relationships in most artciles = straight cisgender people. Whatever!

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Of course not! Two women can't have sex, their fragile butterfly libidos won't allow it. :/

[ladydreamer.livejournal.com]

We lesbos just nuzzle. And drive around in trucks.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Do you combine the two? Because that seems a little dangerous. NO WONDER SO MANY OF YOU CRAZY LESBOS DIE IN MOVIES. YOU'RE ALL TOO DISTRACTED BY YOUR X-RATED NUZZLETRUCKS TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD.

[ladydreamer.livejournal.com]

I KNOW IT IS AN ISSUE WE'RE BRINGING IT UP IN THE NEXT OFFICIAL LESBIANS MEETING D:

[crazykawaii.livejournal.com]

Yes. Because we all know, ladies do not like sex. Because they don't have enough sex with men. That is, they WOULD like sex if they just let their "loving partner" fuck them whenever said "loving partner" wanted to. But then, they probably shouldn't like sex because, y'know, most women don't. But then they should just relax and then they'll really enjoy sex.

...Yeah. Because that makes plenty of sense and is TOTALLY not likely to give anyone MAJOR HONKING ISSUES about sex!

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Don't you love how these articles for women on how to enjoy sex usually boil down to "sleep with a dude and try not to move too much"? >:(

[1-2-suckerpunch.livejournal.com]

I think what she's trying to say is that women should try to be more open to sex. As in, "I may not be in the mood right now but I'm willing to see where the next 15 minutes goes and maybe then I'll reconsider" kind of a thing. However, she totally fucking fails.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

She kind of starts off that way, yeah, but her conclusions? Failcake. :(((

[montrealais.livejournal.com]

NO. BAD. CEASE THIS REASONING IMMEDIATELY.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I'M SAYIN'.

[ficangel.livejournal.com]

Wow, even allowing that maybe this therapist had the best of intentions, that's a big, screaming load of fail.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

A slice of fail pie, topped with a piece of melted fail cheese and a scoop of ice fail. And a cherry.

[two-grey-rooms.livejournal.com]

HAI U GUISE I HAVE THE SOLUTION: LESBIANISM. LESBIAN BED DEATH WILL SAVE US ALL FROM THOSE EVIL MENZ AND THEIR COCKS BECAUSE THE TRUTH ABOUT GIRLS IS THAT THEY NEVER EVER EVER EVER WANT SEX. EVER. SERIOUSLY. EVERY TIME A VAGINA IS PENETRATED, A FAIRY LOSES ITS WINGS. SO DON'T HAVE SEX, OR YOU WILL GET PREGNANT AND DIE.

...I...I felt that this comment was the only appropriate response to that article. That may have been the dumbest thing I have endured all week and dude, I'm still in high school. Yesterday a kid in my friend's French class thought it was a good idea to cut hair with a LAWNMOWER, okay, and still this article kicks his retarded un-coiffed ass.

i'm hoping that mean girls reference was intentional

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

CHLAMYDIA: K-L-A...

Wait, a lawnmower? D:

only cool cats admit to liking Mean Girls, bitch

[two-grey-rooms.livejournal.com]

NOOOO SHUDDUP SHUDDUP SHUDDUP LESBIANISM IS THE CURE-ALL FOR EVERYTHING. YOU ARE RUINING MY GRAND PLAN TO SAVE THE WORLD!!

A fucking lawnmower. You cannot make this shit up. I hope he shampoos his lawn.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

"the female libido tends to be a fragile, easily distracted thing that gets buffeted by normal life and a couple can't afford to have their intimacy reliant on that fragility".

Arndt, who has never OVULATED IN HER FUCKING LIFE. "fragile" and "easily distracted"? NO. CYCLIC. FUCKING CYCLIC.

Arndt said low-libido partners, which are mostly women

Arndt, who has never met a) any of my boyfriends [WHAT LIBIDO?] or b) indeed any of my girlfriends [HELP HELP I NEED FIVE MINUTES WITH NO SEX PLZ].

put sex on the "to-do list", even if they didn't feel like doing it.

Thaaaaaaaanks. I mean, it's only taken me 13 years of being sexually active to figure out that I don't actually *have* to fuck everyone who asks nicely. *glare*

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I mean, it's only taken me 13 years of being sexually active to figure out that I don't actually *have* to fuck everyone who asks nicely.

THIS. Sex should not be something that you just give into. It shouldn't be a chore or an obigation or something you do to keep a relationship together (which, hi, isn't exactly a fail-proof plan!). Sex should be awesome and fun and something you say "yes" to with your whole fucking body, not just your words. (And in this case, obviously, not even those. ARGH.)

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

Srsly. "No sex" is better than "shitty sex". IMO.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Hell, I think a night in with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a Discworld novel is better than shitty sex. But then I got one'a them fragile, easily-distracted libidos.

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

And to be fair, very little beats a PBJ and Granny Weatherwax.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

SERIOUSLY. I can see how that could be construed as an argument for compromise, but "compromise" does not have to be shorthand for "shit sucks for everyone and nobody's happy." Especially considering this particular compromise means that someone will be having sex that they do not want to have, which... HELLO. NOT OKAY. :(

[bleedingcherub.livejournal.com]

Disgusting. So basically some men want their partners to act as unacknowledged prostitutes for them? That's a little alienating.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Just a little, yeah. :/

[montrealais.livejournal.com]

Further to my inchoate comment above, I am a man, for most intents and purposes, and although it is not my habit to sleep with women, would you like to know what my reaction is when I feel as though my partner is 'giving in' to try to 'keep [his] man happy'?

COMPLETE SCREAMING MEEMIES, that's what. Actually I have an entire psychological complex built around the paranoia that the other person is just doing it to be nice. In sum, she's out of her mind, and this article is almost as insulting to men as it is to women.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

That seems like a useful complex, as complexes go.

[montrealais.livejournal.com]

Less than you'd think, actually (it would be nice from time to time to be able to be the one who makes the advance and not, as a result, spend the rest of the relationship assuming that the other person is there just to be nice) but at least I'm grossly overcompensating on the side of not being a complete cock.

[ladydreamer.livejournal.com]

There are so many things wrong with this that I can't really begin. Perhaps this: Delicious rape! Sex therapists recommend it! Or you'll end up an old maid!

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

And when you die you'll be found weeks later half-eaten by an Alsatian, as Bridget Jones has taught us.

[iamsupernova.livejournal.com]

And this was written... by women.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I know. :(

[cat-empress.livejournal.com]

I was going to friend you anyway, but I kind of have to comment on this. She admits that women being able to say no was an advance in feminism, and so she's just going to completely reverse all that? Not sense making. And the first few sentences? All about what the man wants. Why is that always the case?

When I first read the bit you'd posted here, I didn't realise it was from an Australian newspaper. I actually have that Good Weekend article right here. It's right on the fricking cover. I'd love to go through and snark it, but it's late.

I'm kind of annoyed to have my country associated with that sort of opinion. I'm aware of her, I think she does a lot of articles about sex in Australian teenage magazines. And I have to admit that it's the sort of opinion I'd expect her to have.

I've seen you around a bit, found you through coppertone. I kind of love your bandom girls picspam, even though I don't know most of them. Hopefully that will change soon.