(no subject)

[ishyface]

Know what? Early Thanksgiving dinners are made that much better if Bohemian Rhapsody comes on the radio right beforehand.

My parents went to church today for the first time in months. All well and good...
... except for the part where they became spiritually uplifted and decided that it'd be the perfect time to tell me that I should join a Christian youth group. After three years of me telling them that I'm not Christian and will never be Christian.
When they started pressing me about it (mostly feeding me the "how will you lead a fulfilled life if you don't believe in a higher power?" line), I told them that any church that said my friends and I are abominations in the eyes of God or that our relationships are signs of Satan's grip on the world is not going to have me in its ranks any time soon. That got to them, for a minute, and then they started talking about church reform and how I can't let that stop me from accepting my faith and ARGH.
Honestly, I didn't just split from the Catholic Church because I'm queer. That was a big part of it, but not the whole picture.
I left the Church because frankly the very idea of salvation makes my skin crawl.
Original sin. Who decided that that was a good idea? Who decided that being born was reason enough for eternal damnation? It's an idea that I reject, not because I'm trying to make some kind of rebellious statement but because it honestly bothers me. Even when I identified as Christian it bothered me, and while there are many Christian values I'm completely on board with- compassion, non-violence, brotherhood- I can't get over my intense discomfort with the idea that I need to be saved. I see myself as essentially a-religious- not atheist, but nontheist. In my mind there's a big difference.
I could try to explain this to them, but I don't think they'd understand what I mean. They'd think I was attacking Christianity, and honestly I'm not. I just can't see myself as being Christian and happy. If it works for you, fine, but in the words of Karl Marx, "It's not in my bag, baby."

I'm very lonely right now.
The fact that I won't be able to see anyone outside of school until next Sunday does not alleviate that at all. I'm working or at the doctor's just about every night this week. I hate having my time filled up like that- like every moment's already planned.
It's depressing.

Comments

[tentertaining.livejournal.com]

I'm so very glad that my mom hasn't tried that on me. Maybe she's like me and never accutally felt spiritually uplifed after church. I remember the year of comfirmation, my mom wanted me to make "a" desicion, but, I thought it'd be aubvious since I hadn't gone in over a year. At first when I was younger I'd sometimes skip church out of lazyness, and then I went back to see, and was just, wait... I felt like I grew out of it, as horrible as it sounds. Didn't fit in, it was aquard. Didn't want to chime in the monotone. I didn't get it anymore. I was done. At least for then.
Wow, now I feel like a bastard. Oh well.

Three days is feeling a lot longer than it should.
What time do you get out of the doctor's?

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I always wanted to get something out of church- and did now and again. But it didn't happen often enough for me to overcome my personal problems with Christianity. A momentary feeling of peace isn't enough to quash my discomfort with being considered fundamentally flawed. (The fact that I often feel I am is pretty irrelevant- I'm allowed to feel that way about me, but I'll be damned if I'll let anyone else say so.)

Three days is feeling uncomfortably long.
I'd get home around... eight, I think.

[tentertaining.livejournal.com]

" I'm allowed to feel that way about me, but I'll be damned if I'll let anyone else say so."
Heh. Yes. Definatly.

But, I've never complained about a long weekend before.
Would there be enough time to hang out after? Do we have rules about school nights?

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Nor have I.
I don't think we have rules about school nights. Then again, I've never needed to check, really. But I think there'd be enough time.

[tentertaining.livejournal.com]

Let's blame the man. He sets up our work sceduals. Oh, and co-workers who don't want shifts.
That's a releif. I'm not sure if I have set rules either. If there's not enough time I could beg and you **might** be able to take my bus to school in the morning or something.

[bluelashoo.livejournal.com]

I really have personal problems with joining a youth group.

A few years back, I was in the core group for our church's first youth group in years. In short, it didn't work. We tried again the year after that, but we didn't get anywhere at all. So I had kinda given up on the idea, and decided it was best for me to express my faith in other ways.

Now the youth group is taking over our church, but I just don't belong there. "Rocking for God" makes me unbelievably uncomfortable, and everyone seems somehow weirdly out there with their faith. I don't do that, and I don't know if I ever will. I've never been "taken over by the spirit", I've never felt anything really profound in church at all, to tell you the truth.

All I really know if that I believe some -- but definitely not all -- of what I'm supposed to in the Catholic faith. I love singing in the choir because I feel it's how I should thank God for my gift, but I don't feel moved to much other than that. I'm especially turned off of those retreats you go on to find God or whatever. I just WOULD not fit in, and I don't even think I'd really want to. What bugs me the most though, is that I have a really hard time saying no to these people. It's becoming a real problem.

What bugs me the most though -- and this is very un-Christian of me -- are the people who grew up hating church and never going, who all of a sudden wear crosses and carry around bibles and act as if they know everything there is to know about being a Catholic. (You know one of these people... she's in the only class we have together, not our free.) Yeah, I'm rotten. I guess I've always had a problem with people "stealing" things from me in that way.

-- blue --

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

"Rocking for God" would've made me uncomfortable even when I was religious, I think. Christian music has always been a little too... gung ho for me.
"Taken over by the spirit" kind of squicks me too, but that's probably more of an "I don't want to lose control" issue for me.

What bugs me the most though -- and this is very un-Christian of me -- are the people who grew up hating church and never going, who all of a sudden wear crosses and carry around bibles and act as if they know everything there is to know about being a Catholic.
Oh yes. Andre's sister is doing this too and it really bothers me- she's done everything she can in the past to make her family's life miserable, and now all of a sudden she's a good Christian just because she goes on a retreat and wears an "abortion is murder" bracelet? Katelyn doesn't bother me as much, I guess just because I don't know as much about things she's done in the past- she's asked me to come to Christian Fellowship and I'm going to go this Friday, because it'd be impolite of me not to. But I'm not going to keep on going. I honestly prefer being in a mixed faith group. Maybe because people try harder to be inclusive and consider other points of view, maybe for the diversity of opinion- I'm not sure, it's just that much more comfortable for me.

[bluelashoo.livejournal.com]

Other than what I mentioned about Katelyn below, I also remember sitting in religion class every third Saturday for three hours and listening to her make fun of everything that our teacher was saying, complaining that she was dying of boredom, and otherwise not paying attention and being distracting. I know people can change, but that, to me, just doesn't erase the past.

-- blue --

Ranting... sorta.

[crabanzabean.livejournal.com]

People can change, guys. Its not a new phenomenon.
Leah, Katelyn is definitely not "stealing" anything from you. This is how she is, and that is how you are. Did you used to be the Catholic "role model" for teenagers or something? Has she taken away your spot in something? Maybe she's just into the whole "Rocking for God" thing more than being reserved in church. "Rocking" is what gets noticed (not that that's the point). Being a reserved person isn't.
And how can you say that people who suddenly get interested in church bug you? That makes you seem like a really big, unwelcoming snob.

I'm sorry if I offended you. I just had to get it out of my system.

Re: Ranting... sorta.

[bluelashoo.livejournal.com]

That's not entirely what I meant. I in NO way suggested that I was a role model -- anything but, really. But what gets to me the most is how she tends to dismiss me. If talk moves to the Christian faith, it's as if she has to one-up me in anything I say, because she must know more than me. Sure, maybe she might, but being constantly corrected or badgered gets to me in a big way. I'm not stupid. Maybe I haven't done meticulous research, but I do know a thing or two.

I didn't say I was perfect. In fact, I admitted that I'm rotten. It's called a personality flaw; I have a "problem" with people doing anything the same as I do, be it singing or playing piano or having curly hair. Not that I'd ever expect no one to do these things... that would be insane. But I have the constant need to be better. Honestly, it's a problem that goes way beyond this issue, so trying to change it won't do any good. It's personal. Plus, you wouldn't have known it unless I told you, which just goes to show I hide it well and it really doesn't affect anyone else other than me. Call it internal motivation.

-- blue --

Re: Ranting... sorta.

[crabanzabean.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...

I'm sorry that you feel that you're being dismissed by her all the time. I guess that since I'm just starting to get to know her, and I'm not Catholic, I can't really relate to how you're feeling. But I guess I understand where you're coming from. I used to feel put-down whenever Joanna and I would have conversations about anything spiritual - she seemed to always HAVE to be right, even if she didn't really mean it.

And you're right. You do hide it really well. I think I already knew a little bit that it bothers you, though.

I guess that's all.

Re: Ranting... sorta.

[caroline31.livejournal.com]

Oh, the Joanna spiritual conversations. We used to scream and scream at each other when we were little. She'd say I was going to hell, I'd say there was no such thing as hell, she'd say of course there was, cause her daddy said. Ahhh...good times. My mom's solution was, "How 'bout you two never, ever talk about religion ever again?" It's funny to think that we were 11 when she said that. How many 11-year-olds do you have to tell that to?

I realize now that she doesn't always mean it. Maybe she spends so much time defending her faith to others that she has to always at least seem to have the answers...? That's a theory I have, anyway. Now we have just reached an "agree to disagree" point. We will never ever agree on some things, but we still like to talk about them sometimes. We just know when to stop now! (i.e. Before we start smacking, like when we were 11...:S)

[jilly-ma-bean.livejournal.com]

ive been to retreats and youth events and sometimes they are just scary, like theres major pressure to "be moved" there have been times where ive faked it for fear of being ridaculed for not being moved. i went to a youth group for almost 5 years religiously (please pardon the pun) for the most part i was there becuse i needed something to belive in, but now with the person i have become i dont like the idea, i dont want to be told what to belive i dont want all these ideas and pre-concived notions about who or what God is being shoved down my throat. I used to joke around that corys grandmother thought i was a prodistant whore, but after grade 12 i dont care anymore, i am my own person and im going to choose what i belive in, im not going to let an outdated system tell me what is morally right or wrong

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've heard good and bad things about retreats like that. Whenever anyone talks about being moved by God, the first thing that comes to mind is that book, Leaving Fishers- ever read that>

[caroline31.livejournal.com]

I read that! Fairly good book. In a creepy way.

Yeah, I'm glad I got out of all those youth events. I know exactly what you mean, Jill, with the pressure that you HAVE to be moved, you HAVE to accept Jesus into your heart and be saved, if you've already done that, well, do it again, cause we know you've sinned since then!!!

I loved Youth Forum, though. At first it terrified me cause I thought it'd be like Tidal Impact or summat, but it had all the good stuff, the music, the friendships, without any of the bad, like the people breathing down your neck to be saved, to recommit, to devote your life to Christ. UC people are so much more laid back.

Yeah, last year at camp we did this "Spiritual Worlds" quiz, sort of like true colours only with more questions and thinking about God. I am a "World One"- a hippie, in other words. I find God in nature, in experiences, in people, in music, the everyday things. And there were like 6 other "Worlds" people from my camp were. It's pretty cool how there can be so many ways to believe and to be inspired out there, even just within Christianity. And when you look at all the oter faiths out there...I kind of think we're all right. Either there are different Gods out there, or it's all the same God and we just have different ways of looking at her/him.

Religion is fascinating.

[box-head-man.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm agnostic... I am still waiting for proof of the whole dealy, and I do believe that there might be a "higher power" or "consciousness" or "a guy in a chicken suit with power issues", I just refuse to believe that any being could figure it out, let alone little ol' me. I say, live life however you feel is "Good" (remember, though, good is subjective...I COULD GO ON A RANT ABOUT THIS) and try not to be a dick to too many people while you're here.

If I'm wrong, I guess I'll find out afterwards, eh?

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I HOPE I'M NOT A DICK TO TOO MANY PEOPLE.
YOU'D TELL ME IF I WAS RIGHT?

[box-head-man.livejournal.com]

YEP! THEN I'D BLUDGEON YOU TO DEATH

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I DON'T WANT TO BE BLUDGEONED...
BUT WAIT!!!
(NO I ACTUALLY DON'T.)

[box-head-man.livejournal.com]

THAT IS THE POINT AS IT IS A PUNISHMENT-BASED OPERATION AND SINCE YOU DO NOT LIKE BLUDGEONING THAT WOULD BE THE PUNISHMENT PRETTY GOOD HUH BUT SINCE YOU ARE NOT A DICK YOU DO NOT REQUIRE HARM.

HE JUST KEPT TALKING IN ONE LONG INCREDIBLY UNBROKEN SENTENCE MOVING FROM TOPIC TO TOPIC NOT LETTING ANY ONE INTERRUPT HIM IT WAS REALLY QUITE HYPNOTIC.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

YEAH WELL...
YOUR MOM.

[box-head-man.livejournal.com]

YOUR MOM LACKS AWESOMENESS, OR SEXUAL ABILITY! HA HA HA. HA. I AM TIRED.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

YEAH WELL YOUR MOM'S.
UH.
YOUR MOM'S...

I GOT NOTHIN' MAN.

[box-head-man.livejournal.com]

SHAWN WINS. ROBOT-HAZZA.

[box-head-man.livejournal.com]

TOOK SOMEONE LONG ENOUGH TO FIGURE THAT OUT!

ALSO: HELLO! STILL ON FOR THURSDAY?