Weird.

[ishyface]

Something I realized a little while ago: I want to get married someday.

Not now. Not tomorrow. Not even soon. I'm only twenty, for God's sake, it's not like I'm in a rush. But someday. Eventually. In the, you know, very distant future.

It doesn't sound like a big, earth-shattering sort of realization when I say it like that, but it really is for me. I remember deciding rather definitely when I was younger that marriage was a silly outdated institution and I didn't want to have anything to do with it ever, and I kind of feel weird for not feeling that way anymore.

I mean, I was twelve at the time. Still.

Probably what weirds me out the most about this is that I've always kind of been snooty about the whole queer marriage thing- like people who get married, or even just want to, are cleaving to our repressive anti-sexual heterosexist capitalist patriarchal blah blah blabbity blah. Discovering that I'd actually like to partake in that represssive et cetera, coupled with the (fairly recent) discovery that I'm monosexual and monogamous, makes me worry that I'm becoming one of those dam' assimilationist queers that I used to get so het up about. (Pun intended.) I don't think I am, exactly- just because some of my personal tastes and desires happen to line up with certain social norms doesn't mean I haven't questioned those norms, or that those tastes and desires are illegitimate- but it makes me a little uneasy.

But still. I look at people who are married, people who've been with another person for a long time, people who can celebrate that, people who work, and I think, I want that. Not now. Not even soon. But someday.

Weird.

Comments

[crazykawaii.livejournal.com]

I remember feeling exactly the same way when I realized I wanted to have a baby - have it and raise it and maybe even stay home and be "occupation: mom" for awhile. (Although again, not anytime soon - I don't even want the responsibility of a kitten at the moment).

I figure, real radicalism/feminism is all about choice, and having infinite options but ultimately having absolute freedom to choose any of those options. Even and especially the "traditional" ones.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

real radicalism/feminism is all about choice, and having infinite options but ultimately having absolute freedom to choose any of those options

*nod* Very true.

[torificus.livejournal.com]

I get the same kind of bizarre feeling about it, and I'm ... well. If I weren't irritated by labels, I'd be a textbook hetero girl who has never had any real questions about her gender or sexuality, but labels are stupid and I don't ever want to be confined by my own ideas of what I ~am.


That came out kind of pretentious. What I MEAN is that it really makes you think, how many people NEVER QUESTION social norms or just ANYTHING?

I kind of had this revelation a few years ago that, huh, I might /not/ ever want to get married (which I was totally okay with), and I definitely want to have a kid or two eventually, and now... you know, there ARE all these people out there who, in spite of statistics and baffling traditions, really genuinely do WORK. It kind of makes me stupidly happy in a way that isn't even especially OH MAN VICARIOUS JOY.



idk, I don't think I'm allowed to leave comments on anything other than CAPSLOCK EXCITED FANDOM STUPID THINGS when I am lightheaded from the gym.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Hey, that doesn't sound pretentious! Labels ARE stupid. Which isn't to say that people who identify as any one thing are stupid, or that identity is irrelevant- it's just that the words we have at our disposal to describe those things are pretty inadequate and fail to address grey areas and idiosyncrasies.

you know, there ARE all these people out there who, in spite of statistics and baffling traditions, really genuinely do WORK. It kind of makes me stupidly happy in a way that isn't even especially OH MAN VICARIOUS JOY.

Man, I know what you mean! When I see people like that, people who really work and suit each other... it's not really vicarious joy, or longing, or anything really. It just makes me happy deep down in my ~soul. Because, um, I'm a mushball.

[elorie.livejournal.com]

Re: questioning, etc, etc, etc...

What's all the fighting for, unless you ultimately choose your own life? What's the point of trading one set of rules about the "right" way to be for another?

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

What's the point of trading one set of rules about the "right" way to be for another?

I think that's what I'm struggling with, really- I've always identified outside of the norm, because of my queerness and other things too, and that identification comes with certain... not requirements, exactly, but expectations, and the unspoken conviction that if you're not Radical Like Us you're Doin It Rong.

[1-2-suckerpunch.livejournal.com]

I totally get that, man. :)

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I rather thought you might! :)

[sunshinesounds.livejournal.com]

I get that. :D And I remember when I was vocal about wanting to be married with childrens in women's studies last semester, and the results were less than lackluster.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Hee. :D

Oh, dear, did they get all Radicaler Than Thou? I hate that shit. :/

[sunshinesounds.livejournal.com]

Yep. Basically, according to these peeps, to be a proper feminist, you must not pay attention to any roles whatsoever, and we should all identify as being genderless, and not marry, or have children, and we should just all be poly and chainsmoke.

Oh, and the desi kids told me I needed to act more Indian. :D

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Man, that grinds my gears. >:( THE POINT OF FEMINISM IS THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE, FFS, NOT TO BE FORCED TO CONFORM TO ANOTHER STUPID DOUBLE STANDARD.

And if you are Indian, isn't any way you choose to act by definition Indian? Gah. People are nonsensical.

[sunshinesounds.livejournal.com]

It gets better. See, once you meet me in person it'll come across more, but I am so much more like a stereotypical Sask housewife than an Indian housewife any day.

Unfortunately, this blows people's minds on a daily basis, and not in a good way.

[caroline31.livejournal.com]

Your mother will be so pleased.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Not if I don't make with the babies.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I'm still not at the point where I'd ever consider having kids- I don't think I'll ever be at that point, but never say never, I guess- but I wouldn't want them to call me mum or dad, I think. I'd want them to call me Gee. That's a nice, squishy, parental-type name. :)

I secretly really really believe in marriage and telling someone that you'll be with them forever. I just don't always think that I'll get there.

*nodnod*

(Also, I was watching a TV show set in Australia the other day- it was a nature show about koalas, I think- and seriously, how do you guys keep from jumping up and down with glee every time you speak? YOUR ACCENTS. ♥ )

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

That would not be creepy, that would be ROCKIN'. Would you say "a dingo ate my baby" if I asked real nice? :DDDD

I'm not sure if my accent is particularly delightful, so I wouldn't really have anything to say back. Possibly I could say "eh"?

OMG. :DDDD THAT'S SO EXCITING!!! And I'm kinda jellus.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if I have an accent! Well, I do because everyone does, but I'm not from the part of Canada where people say "aboot" and call a couch a chesterfield. Although in Newfoundland, where I'm living right now, people have very thick, distinctive accents- almost Irish, in fact. (See here, here, here, here.) I haven't picked it up yet, but I figure it's only a matter of time. :)

[foucaultonacid.livejournal.com]

i accept.

shall we wear clothes or be naked in our garden together?

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Oh, naked in the garden, darling.

[foucaultonacid.livejournal.com]

*sighs*
with my ring, i thee embed

[mresundance.livejournal.com]

I had the same realization lately.

For years I rejected the notion of marriage as being for me. To me, seeing a lot of man/woman heterosexual marriages, I just saw how both parties could become trapped in social expectations of their gender. I thought: no fucking way.

But then sorting out my gender has made me feel really different about a lot of things. Mostly that I want to settle down with some other dude and raise kids. Not saying we won't escape some of the expectations laid upon us by our culture, nor saying it will be easy. But just saying realizing I wasn't a woman freed me to consider the option and realize, yeah, it was for me. Just not for me as a woman, I guess.

I have a lot of issues with heterocentrism right now. I am not sure what it is, except maybe I am expelling all those years of enforced heterocentrism in relationships, and the expectations laid upon me. Or the expectations I felt men imposed on me. And the expectations I took on that maybe weren't even part of the equation in the first place.

I just see some straight relationships and I think: how the hell can they be happy? They seem more at odds and borderline hateful rather than engaged in a real relationship. I am sure gay people can get in these relationships, but I've not yet seen the kind of friction and animosity that exists in same-gender couples as I have in some straight couples.

/tangenty

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

They seem more at odds and borderline hateful rather than engaged in a real relationship.

Man, I know EXACTLY what you mean. I think a lot of that comes from that whole "battle of the sexes" thing, where a lot of men and women think that they're so different they'll never ever be able to understand each other, so they stop trying even on an individual level. They don't talk, because what would they talk about? They don't smile at each other, because what do they have to smile about? And all they ever really think about is leaving each other.

I thought that was all marriage WAS for a long time. I'm reconsidering that now.

[mresundance.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I find myself being critical of this sort of thing lately. I mean, I pity people stuck in these relationships, but I find it mighty interesting that heterosexuality is the thing in our culture, and yet, due to the same stereotypes and ideas that say "heterosexual is the way to be", people are convinced they will never understand the "opposite sex" or whatever, and enter into these venomous relationships thinking that's the way things are.

It's also hilarious that heterosexual marriage is held up as "traditional" and sacred . . . and yet gender stereotypes have so perverted the balance between female and male as to produce this battle of the sexes thing . . . which means a whole lot of, well, not sacred marriages at all. But just sad and dysfunctional. They are culturally condoned battlegrounds and monuments to fallen, I guess.

I hope that makes sense. Don't get me wrong. I've seen straight marriages that work, really work, and require no quashing of anyone on the basis of expectations on their gender. But then, I was raised in a traditional household and lots of my family is still pretty traditional. Not close-minded. But they just never had to question a lot of things and never thought anything of basically repeating a watered down, slightly more updated version of what their parents, or grandparents did, marriage and family wise. (Meaning: women have made progress, yeah, but they still are the ones doing most of the household chores or cleaning up after their husbands. Little things. Like my griping about how Football Sundays work.)

I can't say, though, that my version will be much different. Except for the whole FTM dude married to the other dude and adopting kids part. And hopefully the non-friction I feel when I am with someone of the same gender. I am relieved that I understand I get a choice in what I accept or don't accept in a relationship, especially marriage. And I am relieved and hopeful that I will find someone who regards me as his equal and does halvses on most everything (unless we agree otherwise). Maybe I will find someone who gets it, or end up with someone who needs a little work to understand (well, the gender thing is a bit of a loop de loop sometimes). But guess I am just relieved I don't have to do it with a straight guy. For some reason, most straight dudes are the most resistant and most retrograde to these kinds of things in my experience. And not because they are bad people, or even sexist. They just don't want to have to dwell on it, I guess. My own brother is a bit of a putz about cleaning up after himself, and acts like I'm a nag if I just say: uh, pick up your towel, dude.

In short: I discovered I hated being in straight relationships with clueless straight men with a burning, fiery passion.

And now I will drink tea. Because tea makes everything better.

Anyways.

What do you think made you change your mind on all this?

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

We don't have Football Sundays here, but we do have All-Dude Hockey Games. Beer is involved. :/

Tea makes everything better, this is true.

I'm not sure what made me change my mind, other than... well. Part of the reason why I didn't think I'd ever get married was that I didn't think I was wired that way, really. I thought I'd be the kind of person who'd never want to settle down or stay with one person. For all my last relationship had its moments of total fuckuperry, it did teach me that that's a possibility. It made me realize that being with one person- assuming it's the right person-makes me happy and fulfilled, and that that's what I want. It made me realize that I like stability.

I remember I was at my cousin's wedding two years ago and thinking, Yes. She and her husband make a good pair. They love the shit out of each other and they work well together and they're equals in their marriage and that is what I want. No Football Sundays, no matching towels, no fighting over what her mother said about me last Christmas- just love and commitment and arguing over who's turn it is to do the dishes.

That's pretty much it, really.

[padparadscha.livejournal.com]

Ah, but marriage has many definitions, no matter what they say--it's not just The Patriarchy! Sure, it's an economic contract, but you can CHOOSE to enter it. And it's also about two people committing to each other. Monogamy's still a viable option! It's just that we want MORE options!

Reposted with better icon, figured I might as well make it look prettier. Sorry. Trying to fix that damn LJ That's-Not-My-Icon glitch, but I am low-priority.

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

Monogamy's still a viable option! It's just that we want MORE options!

*solemn nod* Tru dat.

[uncommon-crow.livejournal.com]

Expect an e-mail soon. Also, what would you like for Midwinter/belated birthday pressies?

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

ROCKIN'. I love email. And I do not need presents, only love! Because I am a dirty hippie.

[gair.livejournal.com]

But what do you mean by marriage? I mean, I am going to be with gerald until one of us dies (or, according to our MASTER PLAN, until we SIMULTANEOUSLY TURN INTO TREES), and we have like wills and financial arrangements and joint accounts and powers of attorney and stuff to basically be each other's next-of-kin, but we both go ARGH ERK YUK GO 'WAY at the thought of getting married or civilly-partnered. It's the idea of being approved of by a functionary of the state that squicks me, I think - signing contracts to legally protect the way I want to live my life, fine; having a ceremony in which the state expresses its moral approval of the way I live my life, not so much. (This is just what the legal ceremony means to me, by the way - lots of my good friends are married and I don't think they did it because they wanted the moral approbation of neoliberal capitalist democracy, so it must mean something different to them...)

[ishyface.livejournal.com]

That's a good question, and to be honest I'm not sure what the answer is.

When I think about marriage I think about the kind of things you and Gerald have- not just legal protections and things, but committment and love and trust etc etc I am a Hallmark card evidently. As for approval... that's never really been something I've wanted from anyone (except possibly my parents and they'd probably be psyched if I married anyone at all, except possibly Ted Bundy). The idea of the state approving of my (hypothetical, future) relationship makes me a little uncomfortable.

So: I don't know. :/

[gair.livejournal.com]

It's a weird thing, I think I never connected 'marriage' with all the commitment love trust stuff (I know! Where was I raised? I mean, actually I was raised by married and crazy-in-love parents, so you'd think I would have made that connection, but it went missing somewhere), all of which is so much more awesome than I would have thought in militantly-single twenties... but for other people, like my friend J, the two go together really closely (she was non-monogamous and a bit of a player till her 50s when she suddenly settled down with my friend L, at which point she was like LET US GET MARRIED, WE ARE MONOGAMOUS NOW IT ALL COMES TO THE SAME THING and L was like OMG HOW CAN YOU CALL YOURSELF A FEMINIST AND WANT TO GET MARRIED???). Breakable definitions! Fun times.